Injector Quest

[zip]

Who's in the RC injector group buy? I need to know what to get for my 10psi setup. Keep in my I have a B16A2 for the new Civic Si. Should I get 310's or 370's, peak-hold or saturated type, and high or low impedence? Help...

[Turismo]

JRCivic,

Sorry to hear about your wrist injury, and right when the "Blackbirds" are about to land too, what luck.

I saw your reply to my injector question and has basically 2 questions for ya.

1. What kind of Fuel Pressure are you seeing on top with your new setup (Cartech + 320's)?

2. Do you have any idea or way of telling what the duty cycle is topping out at (via scan tool or other device) with this setup?

As I stated I am considering getting injectors that are JUST large enough to handle the job at 8psi so I wont have as much to contend with at idle but I also would like to run as close to stock pressure as possible, so I can't have them going over about 80% duty cycle at 8000rpm.

I know this poses the problem of rough idle vs/ not enough duty cycle at these pressures but I figured since I've already gone the PMS route (which by the way is something I would recommend now after working it out) I might as well try spending the money I would put towards the Cartech and get the Windows software for the unit and try the "Zydyne" approach (near stock pressure and large injectors) with it since it would allow me to make real adjustments to "idle" and "closed-loop" parameters in the stand alone mode.

So I guess my main concern is within the injectors ability what is the smallest injector that could handle the job (top side) on OE pressure regulation without maxxing, that can be turned down enough at idle to run smooth (Via PMS).

What is the lowest either style injector can shut down to? (duty cycle, pulse width).

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'96 JRSC GSR Sedan (Black Currant Pearl)
AEM CAI / PMS
J&S Safeguard / Walbro HO Pump
DC Strut Braces Skunkworks Rear Swaybar
H&R OE Sports Billstein HD's
(8psi pulley on deck)

[1fstGSR]

Jim says that we are very close to a fuel resolution. When we get all our specifics in line we will divulge what the upgrade components will be.
Will

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13.24 on a smokin' motor can't be bad!?!




[This message has been edited by 1fstGSR (edited March 24, 2000).]

[VTeCno Geek]

Okay, I have a brand new O2 sensor, and I have my A/F meter and Injector duty cyle meter hooked up. At full boost (8-9psi) I am seeing rich fuel conditions, and 80% dtuy cycle on the injectors. These are 270cc RC Injectors. Also, if I am cruising in 4th or 5th at 3500-4000 RPM, I can punch it and the meter goes rich right away. No pause, no dropping to lean for a second and then climbing, it goes ......all the way to the farthest rich light in less than 1/2 second. From these observations, and my other experiences with these injectors, I would say that these injectors are adequaetly sized for an 8psi GS-R application.

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[Turismo]

Well I am really considering getting some new injectors to combat the triple digit fuel pressure dilema and have a couple question for anyone who has gone FI with larger injectors and can help me with my choice.

I am running 6psi and plan on 8psi tops.

1. What size injectors would I need to run 6-8psi on the OE regulated pressure safely (up tp 80% duty)

2. Pintle vs. Lucas - I've read mixed opinions on both. The MUCH better atomization of the pintle style makes me not even want to consider Lucas for my mostly street driven ride. The only thing I am concerned about is being able to shut them back far enough at idle and have read that the Lucas style have a lower obtainable cycle, although Zydne's research contradicts this. Any opinons here???

I realize that the stock ECU can only shut them down so far so with any injector I go with I will probably have to adress the idle.
I figure if I have this problem I can use the $300 or so I would spend on a Cartech FPR and get the PMS InterACQ software to turn the fuel way down and be able to control "closed loop" operation and get a nearly perfect tuning system.

Any other opinions or insight from any of you having experience with large injectors please respond.

Thanks.

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'96 JRSC GSR Sedan (Black Currant Pearl)
AEM CAI / PMS
J&S Safeguard / Walbro HO Pump
DC Strut Braces Skunkworks Rear Swaybar
H&R OE Sports Billstein HD's
(8psi pulley on deck)

[JRCivic]

Turismo... I am very close to a fuel solution at this time. My main obstacle at this time is the full-length blue (matches the trim on my Civic) cast on my right arm. I have recently broken my wrist quite severly, and the recovery will be slow. The good news is that the 320cc injectors along with the Cartech FMU works extremely well... and the INCREASED power can be felt. Only a small pressure issue remains, and I am confidant that this will be resolved soon.

I will let you know when it is ready.


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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph

[civicboy]

check out rc engineerings site for injector flow formulas. down side of pintle type is that they don't handle higher pressure as well. not to sure that pintle type spray pattern is "bad". seems to me that just about everyone (mag., tuner cars etc.) use the rc's which are lucas (disk) style.

[lundgren]

Geek is right, but he is also at the 60-110 psi fuel pressures too.

Once you lower the fuel pressure, larger injectors are required. I think that a 35-70 psi range with 320's would be better, but the ideal setup is still being worked on.

As for the lucas vs pintle style the stock injectors use a pintle style, and the ECU knows pintle not lucas. The lucas do shut down tigter.

Let me add that the RC injectors for 96+ integra's require an extra $8 dollar a peice adapter, they don't just plug in, the venom's (pintle) do. The venoms can also be sent back to venom and have the re-built to other custom rates, but the standard ones are only about 265 cc's (not enough for what we are talking about).

Let me also add this photo:



The factory ones shown are pintle. Venom says that the lucas at anything but WOT, just bounces right of the cylinder head, where the 'spray' is much better.

I also got this email back from venom.

[quote]
they run 10% over that is correct also they are prepped to atomize more
effeciently than the stock injectors
[\quote]

So... me personally? I'd do the venoms, even though yes, the RC's are more popular. They've been around a long time. And I think yes, the RC will make more VERY TOP end power, but for the whole power range, emmission control, low end, throttle response etc., I like venom.


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http://www.netbsi-kc.com/aa/
http://www.groupbuycenter.com/

[JRCivic]

Turismo... 320's are going to be the size choice. My current peak pressures are in the low 70's, however, I expect this to climb closer to 80 once fully tuned. I do not know the duty cycle specifically, but an 80% duty cycle was used in the math calculations to up-size the injectors, so it should be close.


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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph

[Heretic]

Humdee. I rode in a turbo Integra with 720s and an Accel DFI, jotech sponsored/tuned. It was pretty quick. It idled too, though I wouldn't say it ran like stock.

I have RC 440s and I idle just fine. I have the SAFC to tune down my injector width at low throttle, and back to stock injector duty at higher throttle. That's something you could look at. You know where the SC kicks in? Get bigger injectors and use an SAFC to trim it down. Works for me.

I'm about to get rid of my 2 Lucas 440s though and put in some OEM Honda low-impedance 240s laying around here into my intake plenum via cinches. The MF2 runs them. ~700 cc/min per cylinder @ 60-65psi fuel pressure max.

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Ryan Earl
'99 Turbo SH
NTPOG - North Texas Prelude Owners Group
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